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A mid-block crosswalk across Elm Street between High Street and College Street is the only realistic way to end jaywalking on Elm Street as far as I can tell.
A mid-block crosswalk across Elm Street between High Street and College Street is the only realistic way to end jaywalking on Elm Street as far as I can tell.
50 تعليقs
CT Livable Streets Campaign (مستخدم مسجل)
CT Livable Streets Campaign (مستخدم مسجل)
Here's an example of a best practice crosswalk. The crosswalks themselves are lit up. If it's good enough for Amherst, it's good enough for New Haven:
https://www.amherst.edu/offices/facilities/capital_projects/project_archives/crosswalks_college
The Amherst crosswalk is in a location with a much lower pedestrian and driver volume, of course (they were recording average speeds in the area that are actually much higher than what we have on Elm Street), so a somewhat different, even more progressive approach is probably needed here.
Eric (ضيف)
CT Livable Streets Campaign (مستخدم مسجل)
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Trip Kirkpatrick (ضيف)
David Streever (مستخدم مسجل)
A bike/ped consultant came through that area and thought we were being silly with our concerns. He watched the mid-block and said, "This is perfect. It's not jay walking: they have a legal right to cross here, and you don't need a cross walk. There have been no accidents here, & it creates natural traffic calming, because drivers see this behavior & slow down because they have no options."
I don't know that I agree with him, but I thought it worth letting you all know what he said.
JJJ (ضيف)
And I definitely disagree that it creates natural traffic calming. I'm sure some cautious drivers slow down there to avoid hitting people, but if you stood there for a few minutes at a busy crossing time you'd easily see all the drivers that intentionally speed up between High and College as their way of suggesting to potential jaywalkers, "don't mess with me."
I disagree that it's perfect and doesn't need modification. I hope someday the people that paint crosswalk lines will agree there is a need for something here. Either that or the fences, as mentioned above.
JJJ (ضيف)
Here is an idea of what this can look like, though this one is from California.
David Streever (مستخدم مسجل)
Hmm,
it's hard. I think he was referring to a legal right--in his words, it wasn't legal to ticket there, & the legal right was on the pedestrians--much like at Church & Audubon.
I think it's possible that the police don't always know the law or the way it should be enforced, so I don't find it surprising! Police frequently implement laws concerning pedestrian issues incorrectly.
I'm not saying he's right about his assesment though: just sharing it. I think a fence is probably the worst possible fix, and would work to prevent that at any costs.
He also follows the Northern European relatively new concept of streets as shared spaces: in this model, we reduce signage, & force traffic calming by forcing drivers to... pay attention :) It's working pretty well in other places, but I have no idea how well that would work in New Haven.
Ben (ضيف)
Is there stats to back them up?
Is this something that Yale would want to financially back the city on?
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Anonymous (ضيف)
This does seem like one of those situations where the city could loose a lawsuit for looking away from a longstanding safety issue.
David Streever (مستخدم مسجل)
I love the light up crosswalk! Very cool. I hate the one that talks though ;-)
I added the police to this, because I do think they should be aware of what Brian posted:
that's basically what the consultant was explaining. The lack of a crosswalk, despite an engineering need for one, means that the police are not really able to ticket there. Anyone could win that case.
I don't advocate we do nothing--I'm not really advocating anything--I'm really just hoping that City Hall realizes this & jumps on it. The intersection of audubon/church is the same situation, and also cited by the consultant as a place where crossing was perfectly legal due to the t-junction.
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Brian Tang (ضيف)
Greg (ضيف)
David Streever (مستخدم مسجل)
legally, the mid-block crossing IS legal :)!
if someone uses it & their is a death, the city is liable
Brian Tang (ضيف)
Streever, I think the consultants were just talking about the east side of the intersection of High and Elm, where there is no marked crosswalk, but you can legally cross there since it's a corner (despite this, some Yale students were given warning tickets for crossing here last fall). This clicket, and I think Greg's comment, have to do with the section of Elm St in front of Durfee's where hundreds of Yale students jay-walk every day.
In response to Greg's bewilderment at the propensity of (supposedly) the best minds of my generation to engage in risky behavior, I must say, Greg, you are not the first to wonder.
Now I must reveal the I myself am a Yale undergraduate. While I manage to take the circuitous route necessary to legally cross Elm St nine times out of ten, I do occassionally find myself late for class. In these situations, the potential risks of jay-walking pale in comparison to the certain costs of being late.
Perhaps the best comparison is with a train station: people will always show up at the last possible minute, basing their calculations of walking time on the shortest possible distance.
Not even a fence could possibly counter such basic psychological tendancies toward running late. What we need is for the psychologically prefered path to be the safe path. This was achieved through mid-block crosswalks throughout the Broadway District and on Temple St in the Green and in front of a certain hotel. A similar mid-block crosswalk, featuring a curb extension on the north side of the street, pavers to mark the the crossing area, and basic crosswalk signs on either side of the street, might very well do the trick.
Brian Tang (ضيف)
ben (ضيف)
It seems that the University is encouraging the Jay Walking currently by cutting walkways in the snow midway down Elm Street where there are currently no crosswalks.
On the other hand, how many people have been hit here in the last ten years? maybe the chaos is what's maintaining the peace...just to play a little devils advocate.
Brian Tang (ضيف)
Greg (ضيف)
Sorry, Streever, I wasn't 100% clear. I meant to put emphasis on the word and. Safe *and* legal is how I'd like people to walk (and drive, and bike).
It just seems to me that a crosswalk here would be rewarding risky behavior. I'd rather see an automatic walk signal added into the light cycle at Elm and High. People will still cross mid-street, but I'd hope that the walk signal would help them stay safer.
Eric (ضيف)
Mark (ضيف)
That would have to be a VERY tall fence if you expected it to work. Also, to be safe, it would need to be installed on both sides.
Unfortunately, the existing sidewalks are too narrow to handle the amount of pedestrian traffic that would result from that plan.
Mark (ضيف)
P.S. In addition, all street parking would need to be removed (because of the need for a fence on BOTH sides). This would result in a "tunnel effect," serving to greatly increase automobile speeds, in the process dramatically increasing risk to pedestrians.
So by trying to solve one problem, you would actually be making the whole situation much worse.
Brian Tang (ضيف)
I have written a letter to the Yale Daily News on this issue, which will run in September, pending further developments. Although this letter is intended for a Yale audience, I think it might be helpful in the broader conversation about conflicts between motorists and pedestrians at this location.
Here is my letter:
"We should fix Elm Street. Students rushing to get to class on time dash across the street like hunted animals as frustrated drivers floor it coming out of Broadway in a futile effort to get through all the intersections before the signals change.
To be perfectly honest, I love the bewildered look on drivers' faces when they suddenly find themselves in the midst of a sea of Yalies, and there's definitely something appealing about that moment between classes when—through sheer force of numbers—we, pedestrians, take back the street and remind drivers that they are merely guests in our public space.
These aren't the moments that concern me though. I'm concerned when I see my classmates risking their lives because the nearest legit crosswalk is all the way up at the west end of the High Street intersection. It scares me when my friends run across the street at night because it seems like the right thing to do. It scares me, but I can't blame them. Not just because they're my friends, but because people don't walk in big oxbows; we walk directly where we want to go in as straight of a line as possible. If we behaved any differently, Cross Campus might not be so much muddier than Old Campus.
Still, sooner or later somebody is going to get hurt. I'm not so sure I'm OK with that.
Some people have suggested adding fences, like on Broadway. After all, the fact that the grass on Old Campus doesn't get trampled to death probably has something to do with the fence.
I have some problems with the fence idea, though. First, that would be seriously annoying, like those big corporations who don't like it when people sit on the ledges that make the walls of the planting boxes at the base of their office tower and so they cement pointy rocks onto the ledge and put up signs saying "NO SITTING." Second, people are just going to hop over that fence, like the people who put a newspaper on top of the pointy rocks and sit on the ledge at the bottom of the office tower anyway. Third, I think I have a better idea, inspired by Nicolas Kemper's April 6th op-ed about stop signs and a presentation I attended on April 2nd given by Jeff Rosenblum and Chris Hart of the City of Cambridge, Mass and the Institute for Human Centered Design, respectively.
So far as I can tell, two basic factors make Elm Street an accident waiting to happen. First, drivers think this is a highway, and second, we Yalies prefer to dodge cars rather than wait for traffic signals that work differently at every intersection. In addressing this problem, I suggest we put safety first. Yalies are going to cross Elm Street in the middle of the block no matter what we do. Therefore, to achieve safety, we have to keep vehicle speeds under a certain level (a car driving 12-18 mph is much less likely to kill someone). That said, it would be great if we could do this without bringing traffic to a complete halt (have you ever tried to drive in New Haven?).
Currently average speeds through this area must be around 8-12 mph when you factor in all the time drivers have to spend waiting at traffic lights. When drivers get the green light, though, they floor it in a desperate attempt to make up for lost time. In other words, what we have here is a classic case of stop-and-go traffic. Not good. Much better, both for pedestrians and drivers/cyclists, would be to calm traffic to a slow trickle moving at somewhere around 15 mph.
I have several ideas to help achieve this, which taken together just might solve our problem. First idea: replace the traffic signal at High Street with an all-way stop (credits go to Mr. Kemper on this one). Second idea: build a raised crosswalk midway down the block, right between Porter Gate and Durfee's. (Google "raised crosswalk" if you're not sure what I mean.) Third idea: get rid of all the pedestrian signal buttons and time the lights so that someone driving/cycling at 12-15 mph will cruise right through. Pedestrians should be allowed to cross with the green light. Turning drivers will just have to learn how to yield."
Joey (ضيف)
There's not many an alternative around this bottleneck , York dumps a one way into it,Park street is hidden and leads to nowhere,make Grove a two way. Ask the motorists just where are they going, They might answer "to get away from this rabble as quickly as possible"
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
I'm going to take back the four-way stop idea. I should have listened to Streever (and Erin S-P, and Rachael P, and everyone else). A four-way stop on Elm would be a complete disaster at current traffic volumes.
I visited home and was walking around Portland State University and noticed that they also have a high-speed, 3-lane, one-way street running through campus (named Broadway, ironically enough). There is a small street on PSU's campus that comes to a T-intersection at Broadway (ironically with the street closed on the other side, just like High St). What they did there was just set the traffic light so that instead of going to green for the small cross street, it goes to blinking yellow. This encourages drivers turning onto Broadway to yield to pedestrians in the crosswalk. This allows them to put crosswalks on both sides of the intersection.
So now I have a different idea: forget about getting rid of the High Street signal. Instead, stripe the crosswalk on the east side of the intersection. Then reprogram the signal to give High Street a blinking yellow light instead of green when it is their turn to go.
Further down, between Durfee's and Porter Gate, I still recommend a mid-block raised crosswalk. This could be engineered to be very wide so that buses and emergency vehicles will not have a problem.
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Anonymous (ضيف)
This all seems very silly to me. There are crosswalks at both ends of the block (at High and College), and it's not a very long block. Should cars stop speeding and yield when pedestrians are in those crosswalks? Yes. Should the lights be timed better so the traffic isn't as bad and cars that make it to Elm St. aren't gunning it to make the next light? Yes. Should we make traffic worse so Yale students don't have to walk half a block to cross the street legally? No. It's 250 feet. Pedestrians who cross between High and College should be ticketed.
If we need a crosswalk anywhere, it's on Prospect on Science Hill. There's technically no legal place to cross Prospect between Sachem and Edwards, which is over 1500 feet.
Full disclosure: I'm a Yale student.
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Valid points, anonymous Yale student!
I’m starting to think that timing the lights on Elm Street for 12–15 m.p.h. really should be the top priority, far and above going for a mid-block crosswalk. Now that the Recovery and Reinvestment Act has freed up funds for the City purchase a new central control system for the city’s traffic signals, timing the lights in this high-traffic corridor should not be particularly difficult (relatively speaking, of course).
I read that the status of upcoming traffic signals (red, yellow, or green) has a measurable, statistically significant effect on the speeds of drivers approaching that intersection. I often see situations here where the light at High Street is green, but the road is completely deserted because the upstream (York Street) light is red. By the time the York St light changes and cars get to High Street, the signal turns red after just a couple of cars get though, and the rest have to wait. The current situation rewards people with lead feet (dangerous for peds) and punishes people who attempt to slowly coast through (not particularly dangerous). Instead, the City should time the lights on Elm Street from Broadway to State Street such that they are CONSISTENTLY red until just before the moment when a vehicle moving at 12 m.p.h. would reach the intersection. This will punish aggressive drivers (by making it impossible to make it down the street any faster than the rest of us, regardless of their speed), and will permit operators of vehicles traveling at 12–15 m.p.h. to sail through without hardly touching the gas (or breaking a sweat, as the case may be).
CT Livable Streets Campaign (مستخدم مسجل)
I agree with Brian, for the most part. There are many examples of the situation he describes in other cities. Typically, speeds are painted on the roadway surface to alert drivers, and a combination of narrow lanes and chicane treatments are used.
Though speed reduction clearly must be the top priority, I would still argue that other "complete streets" treatments are required here. Either 1) the mid-block crossing needs to be recognized and regulated as such, or 2) pedestrians have to be accommodated in other ways (e.g., through signal changes, shorter crossing distances, and pedestrian obstructions such as parked vehicles, bollards and/or fences).
I think #2 would ultimately fail, because the "desire lines" are so strong, and therefore the only solution is to accommodate the mid-block situation.
ConnDOT and New Haven need to realize that 30MPH traffic through the center of a busy pedestrian-rich environment is not at all an acceptable situation.
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Anonymous (ضيف)
Bottom line is that, given the volumes of pedestrian traffic along Yale's busiest campus axis, if any engineer thinks that this situation can be solved by redirecting pedestrians to the intersections, they need to have their heads examined.
A new light pattern plus traffic calming, similar to what was done on Broadway/Elm between TYCO and Park Street, is desperately needed here.
Brian Tang (مستخدم مسجل)
Doug Hausladen (مستخدم مسجل)
Anonymous (ضيف)
CT Livable Streets Campaign (مستخدم مسجل)
Anonymous (ضيف)
The main temptation to cross here is to go between Old Campus and Cross Campus. So how about closing the Old Campus gate in the middle of the block, in addition to properly marking all three crosswalks at High?
Closing that gate could redirect a lot of the pedestrian traffic to the ends of the block where the crossings already exist. There are times when that gate is closed for security or construction and no one seems much bothered by it. No one seems to mind that its counterpart at the Chapel St end is also closed.
It would also not hurt to slow traffic all the way from Broadway to Church.
Anonymous (ضيف)
A deterrent to walking to the ends of the block is the high stone walls squeezing pedestrians up against fast traffic plus loitering and trash around the gates of Trumbull college especially near the dining hall's back entrance. This block's sidewalks are noisy and crowded. In summer there is hardly any shade. In winter the narrow sidewalks are made even narrower by plowed snow. So of course people will think about crossing straight over from Cross Campus to the Old Campus gate and Durfee's. I know I think about it. And Yale put those gates in those places, so they define a natural crossing point much more so than the Wall St intersection.
Can we do anything to make this more pedestrian friendly like generally slowing the traffic, widening the sidewalk, removing one car lane, adding planter boxes and increasing the tree cover?
Anonymous (ضيف)
Anonymous (ضيف)
Please (ضيف)
CT Livable Streets Campaign (مستخدم مسجل)
City of New Haven (تم التحقق رسميا)
tripst3r (مستخدم مسجل)
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GregL (مستخدم مسجل)
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